Posted by: theoptimisticconservative | March 23, 2010

Artificially Staged with 100% Chance of Demagoguery

It was an unpleasant shock this morning when The Weather Channel – The Weather Channel – broke into its regularly scheduled reporting of, well, “weather,” to take viewers to the Obama signing of the House health care “reform” package.

There is nothing conceivable to make of this programming decision, other than that the TWC executives consider the Obamacare legislation so historic-n-epic that even The Weather Channel, which has no charter to bring viewers such non-weather-related coverage, would be doing its audience a service by getting in on the act.

It’s not like viewers had no other options for watching the ceremony.  Just through my cable service, I get 11 other channels on which the signing ceremony was being broadcast.  Three of them are NBC Universal properties, which TWC is as well, since the 2008 buyout.

Seriously, why was a domestic political signing ceremony being broadcast on The Weather Channel?  I don’t remember that kind of coverage being accorded the political events after 9/11, even though that was arguably a much bigger single episode in America’s national life.  A bill signing ceremony has nothing to do with weather.  Any connection with weather is tenuous to a degree of absurdity – unlike, for example, TWC focusing on how weather was affecting relief efforts in Haiti after the earthquake, or how weather was affecting the post-9/11 recovery and clean-up efforts in Manhattan.  Even weather’s effect on a presidential inauguration establishes a connection that meets the common-sense test.  Weather does affect such activities, as it does big sporting events and military operations overseas.  There’s some “hook” for involving TWC in coverage.

But an indoor signing ceremony in Washington, DC?  We’re not, after all, talking about a segment predicting the weather for the signing ceremony.  We’re talking about running live coverage of it, on a TV channel where such coverage has no purpose conceivably related to the channel’s charter, as understood by the viewers.

There’s a creepy aspect to this, an aura of programming decisionmakers clobbering the infotrons with political coverage from one particular perspective.  Fortunately, NBC is one media outlet among a number of them.  We in the public have the requisite knowledge about its ownership (General Electric holds 80% of NBC Universal) to form judgments about how that might affect its editorial perspective.  We have experience with NBC properties (NBC, MSNBC) to inform us where its news programming executives and senior editors are coming from.  We know that GE has benefited from more than $120 billion in federal bailout money and is positioned to profit from carbon trading under new US laws for which it has been lobbying hard.

So forewarned is forearmed, and all that.  Hallelujah for freedom of speech and the press, and for thinking independently and forming our own judgments.  Yet the sense of a media giant pushing “themes” on viewers gathers steam.  I thought the past week’s commercial blitz with the GE-Reagan Centennial ad was almost miraculously timed to juxtapose in people’s minds their memories of Reagan, and his association with GE, with Obama’s great FDR-ite moment of Progressive political triumph, which the left is playing up for all it’s worth.  I was ready to let the impression of the timing go, but then The Weather Channel interrupted its broadcast for live coverage of the bill signing this morning, and the sense of a media theme blitz became too great to ignore.

Frankly, this TWC programming decision was inappropriately political.  Since I’m bailing out GE, NBC’s parent company, that’s more than an issue of consumer choice.  I’ve already changed the channel, but I shouldn’t have to keep the parent company in operation so it and its subsidiaries can impose wholly-unrelated political themes on weather coverage.

Take back Congress in November.

Cross-posted at Hot Air’s Greenroom.


Responses

  1. The over exposure of the Obama crowd has been commented on for some time now. As propagandists the O group is also 3rd rate. instead of always leaving the public wanting more, they’ve over saturated the market. Can’t wait for the no popcorn at the movie theaters bit, aught to finally kill off the movie theater business. All Obama, all the time, every where, very, very boring.

  2. This is not just an issue of which party/opinion gets what coverage, but arguably a part of a bigger issue: TV has a tendency to not understand what is important, and will often choose ceremonies and other nonsense without news-worthiness over more important things. With regard to this particular issue, the signing is uninteresting—we knew that it would take place and it was just a formality. News-worthy items, in contrast, include debates around the reform and the actual vote taking.

    An excellent example of this mispriorization is how Olympics and World Championships in e.g. Track & Field are treated: Prize ceremonies are regularly given precedence over the actual competitions.

  3. “All Obama, all the time, every where, very, very boring”
    except…except when he’s meeting with leaders he disapproves such as the Dalai Lama, and today Bibi Netanyahu. No cameras allowed, no welcoming tone. Just boorish, arrogant BHO.

    • are there any Americans who do approve of the very boorish, truculent, and second-rate brother that is Bibi Netanyahu?

    • Well we are getting instructed, I guess, as to who we are supposed to respect and who were not supposed to respect by when the photo opts are allowed and not allowed. So far Obama has picked two of my favorites( the Dali and Bibi ). I should send the White House a list of people I’m in favor of so they don’t have to invite them to the White House, that should save the State Dept. a ton of money right there.

  4. Orcas, if you send the list to the Weather Channel and it gets to the White House, that might be interesting….

  5. All bow to Obama!

    Sigh

    Yes, the cult-like worship of the man is a bit much.

  6. Did you flip over to the Cartoon Network to see what they were carrying?

  7. Since you don’t like “artificial staging” I’m sure you equally disapproved of another president who landed on on aircraft carrier and declared “Mission Accomplished” a few months into a war that is crippling and bankrupting the country!

    • How is that relevant to this post in any way, shape, or form?

    • This comment is ridiculous on so many levels. It’s also irrelevant, but let me at least point out that if the war is “crippling and bankrupting the country!” you must be aghast at the fiscal consequences of ObamaCare.

      Landing that jet on the aircraft carrier was a greater accomplishment than anything PBHO has done over the entire course of his life. Unless, that is, you consider crippling and bankrupting the country an accomplishment, in which case PBHO takes the prize.

    • Yeah, the Iraq war was entered under possibly the worst pretenses possible. But if you’ll Google a few other conflicts we’ve been involved in, you’ll see that a persistent presence has paid off for us in the long run. Specifically I’m referring to the Marshal Plan of 1949, under which the U.S. basically rebuilt Europe. The history books forget about the recession we in the U.S. went through to make that happen.

      When was the last time you were happy about paying for something you never got to use? This new Health Care law will do nothing for the U.S. but slow the economy even more and open up a few more government jobs to do the paperwork. I see no good side to this new law. I’m getting no benefit, and I’m paying for it.

  8. All this govt intrusion into our lives and the takeover of what was once in the hands of the private sector and the use (or coercion) of private companies to do what the leadership wanted them to do and attempting to force the citizenry to live their lives in the “proper” manner – wasn’t that what the fascists did in the 40′s?

    Is it unreasonable to declare that what Obama & Co are doing is the same thing that the fascists did in the middle of the last century? Minus the violence of course (except for some Black Panther indiscretions here and there).

    • But the fascists of Germany and Italy offered the people a great and usually payoff type temptation if you have sort of slippery morals, world conquest. That’s what I don’t think is a big selling point by Obama’s crowd. It’s getting hard to keep up with the list of all who are now defined as rotten by the Obama left. I must belong to a couple of the sub categories of the rotten and since late November 2008, I even left the Democratic Party for the Republicans. I mean who is interested in supporting a government who thinks entire groups of the middle class are the worst of the worst(for some of the categories check out VDH’s posts on Pajamas Media). I just went on the Reclusive Leftist (the blog owner is a true feminist, I mean a lady who is consistent and honest about her value system). I can respect that type of honesty. The Reclusive Leftist can’t stand this health care bill! It’s like living in the Tower of Babel.

  9. A noticeable resemblance to the early days of Nazi Germany. As Nazi’s took control of the media to advance their message, through half truths and lies. Those who fail to learn their history are condemned to repeat it. Where were the public debates that were promised on CSPAN??? I hope people can remember the socialist Nazi’s who voted for this in November, if Herr Obama hasn’t done away with the right to vote by then.

    • That is so not cool. Are we really getting back to the Hitler thing? Hitler was a fascist, and fascism is usually recognized as far right, not far left. And I don’t think Barrack Obama is gassing minorities yet. Actually, aren’t Democrats usually the ones more tolerant of minorities? Hm…

      • Yeah, if anyone resembles Hitler, it’s Sarah Palin! Far right, popular following of uneducated masses, appeals to gun imagery…. I really hope she doesn’t go down the same path.

      • The Hitler thing is standard democratic liberal fodder. Checkout the history of how Hitler managed to rise to power in post WW one Germany.
        Same goes for the Democratic Party prior to 1963. Democrats and Jim Crow were one in the same. A fact no one in to days society never ever mentions.

  10. Good post.

    The Weather Channel? Really? I would have been stunned with that programming decision.

  11. If you don’t like the message, blame the messenger, right? I have no idea whether or not GWBush’s Mission Accomplished aircraft carrier charade was played out live on the Weather Channel as it was everywhere else, but I bet if it was, you right-wingers would have cheered.

    • I doubt it, but at least that event was outside so an argument could have been made for it appearing on TWC (although it would have been tenuous at best).

    • Few right-wingers would have been watching the Weather Channel, they’re all at work to feed people living off of welfare.

      • Tell that tripe to a Union person who’s worked LONGER than you’ve been living with all your false pride. The weather channel’s on 24/7, that’s 23 and 7/8 longer than the brainwave you just missed.

  12. So what’s different about this over-exposure from any other country? UK – Brown/Cameron?Election etc!! I am now resident in Spain. Skye News is available if you want to quickly catch up on UK News. It takes 10 15 minutes for a quick run thro’ of the News, and then …. it repeats it again….and again….and again…by now you know it off by heart. Believe me, your Govt. intrusion has a long way to go to catch up with the UK!!

  13. You bring up and interesting point, and that is, liberals have succeeded at creating a state religion right under our noses.

    The religion is secularism.

    Their god is a totalitarian government.

    Look at how Obama ran for pres…based on Hope, which is a spiritual ideal.

    Their government schools do a poor job of educated, but a great job of creating secular humanists. Don’t believe me, look at this fact…gov school attendees are MUCH more likely to hold secularist views than kids FROM THE SAME BACKGROUND who went to private schools or who were homeschooled.

    Schools are failing. They’re doing exactly what they were intended to do–create good little liberals who look to the state as if to a god.

    • You are absolutely correct in this assertion. We have been witness to the dismantling of organized religion over the past few decades and the media was complicit in this. The end goal is, as you stated, the erection of a new world religion, secularism. Everything they tell us we must do is now for the good of the nation, for America. This country was founded by people for people, but the nationalist view that now prevails threatens to destroy the people for the good of the nation.

    • Tell me the death toll of religion: Crusades, other holy wars, witch burnings, inquisitions, murders in the name of a god. etc.
      Tell me the death toll of secularism: ?
      Schools aren’t trying to do away with religion. We still have to recite ‘under God’ in the pledge, which is a load of crap. But if schools did do away with religion, the world would be a better place.

  14. So the weather channel’s in on it! Thanks for the heads up.

    All these conspiracies to brain wash the public into lying down and accepting a government that wants to help sick people. Dam it. It’s un American.

    • If the government was interested in helping sick people they wouldn’t have prohibited the interstate sale of health insurance.

      This is about control.

  15. The amalgamation of the state and most elements of the health care industry is the definition of fascism. And, as we move on to the financial, manufacturing and energy sectors, wrapping them in regulations designed to entrench the current administration and business interests at the expense of the general population, the fascist paradigm becomes complete.

    • get a better definition of fascism Chuck. I one you’re spouting is sadly lacking and silly.

      • “Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy.”

        “E.G. Noel O’Sullivan’s five major themes of fascism are: corporatism, revolution, the leader principle, messianic faith, and autarky. The Fascism Reader by Aristotle A. Kallis says, “1. Corporatism. The most important claim made by fascism was that it alone could offer the creative prospect of a ‘third way’ between capitalism and socialism. Adolf Hitler, in Mein Kampf, spoke enthusiastically about the ‘National Socialist corporative idea’ as one which would eventually ‘take the place of ruinous class warfare’; whilst Benito Mussolini, in typically extravagant fashion, declared that ‘the Corporative System is destined to become the civilization of the twentieth century.’”"

        Hmm… Who’s always raving about class warfare? Who is it that advocates interventionist, decidedly a-capitalist policy and decries any accusations of socialism?

        Corporatism? Check! (ObamaCare, GM, GE, EESA, etc.)
        Revolution? Check! (Need I even cite an example?)
        Leader Principle? Check! (The “Obama Brand”)
        Messianic Faith? Check! (The cult-like worship of PBHO)
        Autarky? Check! (Protectionism, a favorite of the left)

        I’ll be the one to tell you, fuster, that it is you who are silly.

        Read up and try again sprout ; )

      • fuster, is that the best comment you can muster? Thank for the great reply, Rodney!

  16. Welcome to all the new commenters. Delays in the appearance of your comments were due to the one-time approval requirement, but anything you want to add will post automatically from now on. Don’t be strangers!

  17. You should check out this blog I blogged about, LOL :P on the Obama branding. Its long but really interesting and particularly pertinent on what you’ve discussed here.

    Here’s the link:
    http://1dental.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/fascinating-blog-on-obama-brand/

  18. Even homeschooling children puts them at risk for becoming educated and possibly liberal/secularist.
    Take no chances.

    People wishing to avoid any chance of liberal/secularist offspring should take any and all measures necessary to avoid doing anything that might cause children.

  19. I don’t think they had the “historic” signing and the O-men on The Food Network … yet.

  20. This post is wonderful. The Weather Channel has no business airing a political bill signing. It always bugs me when I turn to TWC to see the weather (shocking!) and there is a TV show or movie. Yeah, they’re showing movies now!

    I didn’t know TWC was a subsidiary of NBC. I may have to stop watching them anyway. NBC makes me sick.

    • Dear Peaches, as odd as it sounds for something called the Weather Channel to be devoting air time to a rather significant new law, I’m sure that the opticon’s free-market ideals would preclude her from agreeing that the Weather Channel has no business showing whatever it is that the Weather Channel’s owners decide to show.

  21. [...] Read More: By JE Dyer, theoptimisticconservative [...]

  22. yes, Rodney, you absolutely do need to cite an example of revolution.
    the rest of your examples are terribly insufficient and ill-conceived, but at least you tried.
    you’ve got to do better and show something about how Obama wasn’t elected or doesn’t work through the democratic process.
    It’s dreadfully dim to ignore that the bill just signed was legislation rather than proclamation.

    the revolution hasn’t been televised….even on the Weather Channel.

    • Saying Obama or the current leadership in Congress “work through the democratic process” is the epitome of ignorance. They completely ignored the overwhelmingly obvious will of the people in shoving this attempted liberal cornerstone of power they call healthcare reform down our throats (don’t know what I’m talking about, fuster? Not surprised. Study world political history.).
      There is a reason Canadians and other foreigners come to the U.S. when they need serious medical care. But after the govt takes it over, ours will be just as crappy as everyone else’s the world over. Yay! Why be great when we can be barely mediocre. Aren’t we glad we have a President and a Congress who are willing to sell us out to mediocrity in order that they may retain power!?
      They will pay in November. Don’t forget, Republicans, Independents, and Democrats who truly love freedom… The elected leadership we have now is NOT standing up for what “we, the people” want. Vote it OUT!!

    • Does it require all of your faculties to prattle off petty insults at the other commenters? Regardless of your ideological persuasion you should respect the fact that they have offered original ideas and input. You have yet to offer anything constructive and I don’t suspect you shall. It’s as if you believe substance is achieved in the putting down of others. No one is impressed. Sadly, you come across as a bitter and contradictory individual.

      • it requires very few of my faculties to reply to people calling me “sprout” when they’ve little to back up the ideas that they put forward as constructive.
        I’ll be happy to try a bit harder and respond with suitable courtesy if you attempt to back up that misapplication of fascism the the elected administration and congress.

        Unfortunate thing that I am, I simply fail to see the overall positive contribution in attacking our government based on nothing much beyond disdain and dislike for the image of its principle members and I’ve long held this position.
        More than a year it is now!

  23. I’ll say that what you call “overwhelmingly obvious” is neither.
    Nor will I concede that you have the right to invoke “world political history”.

    Assertions such as the one’s that you toss about must fail!! It’s historically inevitable!!!!!!

  24. I’m so glad you were one of this week’s featured blogs – I plan on returning often.

    Thanks for some interesting food for thought!

  25. I’m late to the conversation and didn’t plan to comment at all. I didn’t watch the signing on any channel and while the weather channel ‘breaking new ground’ by showing political coverage is an obvious partisan political impulse by management, it’s of course their perfect right to do so.

    The reason I changed my mind is that tonight I saw a very brief clip of the very end of the signing, as Obama finished. There was an air of celebration around him, big smiles all around, which was certainly understandable. I’m sure that for many there, it was the a lifelong dream accomplished.

    And of course, given that Obama had devoted the first 14 months of his Presidency to this effort, one he assured hesitant and wavering Democrats that the future of his Presidency hinged upon, I expected to see him joyful as well. After all, it was his and the Democrat’s moment of triumph. Together they had accomplished what none had before.

    But that is not what I saw. Not even close. While he very briefly and curtly nodded his head in acknowledgment of the cheers, it was most definitely not the face of triumph.

    Interpreting facial expressions is often difficult and always problematic but what I do know is that his expression did not match the occasion at all.

    Quite the opposite in fact. I saw perhaps grim determination, anger mixed with fear(?) or perhaps dread…almost like a man contemplating a coming struggle from which he was uncertain he would escape unscathed. That he was contemplating what lay yet before him rather than what had just been done.

    Certainly Obama must be thinking of what next he wishes to accomplish, that is only human nature. What is not human nature though is to, at a moment of complete triumph, not even crack a smile. There was no happiness in his eyes. How could that be? Only the grimmest of prospects can make a man dismiss the most natural of reactions.

    Somethings going on folks, something so big that a young President having accomplished what many characterize as ‘the holy grail of liberalism’ and, at the very moment of a truly historic signing of it into law, could not, even for but a moment, enjoy his triumph.

    Again I don’t know what I saw but I know I saw something seriously amiss. And the fact that evidently few caught it or grasp its significance, changes its importance not at all.

  26. That’s an interesting perspective, GB. I can’t say I watched Obama closely enough in what I’ve seen of the signing ceremony to have formed any real impression. So I’d hesitate to add anything to what you’ve said. But it’s certainly food for thought.

    Regarding TWC’s right to program as it sees fit, I’m sure you (and fuster) know I would agree with that under virtually all circumstances in which only private funds were at issue.

    But that’s not the case here. Ownership by GE means TWC benefits, even if only collaterally, from public bailout money. Without the GE bailout in 2008-9, it’s not clear that the conglomerate would still own all its assets today. That includes the NBC Universal properties, the category in which TWC falls. If GE had had to sell itself off in pieces in bankruptcy court, TWC would likely be owned by another company that had received no bailout money (mainly because the owner probably wouldn’t have had a finance arm at all, much less one leveraged to its eyeballs in high-risk securities).

    This is all a “place” I don’t think we want to go, which is why the bailouts have been a bad idea and government bailing out media companies, evne tangentially, is a particularly bad one. We taxpayers SHOULDN’T have to keep GE in business so NBC can run coverage of its favorite political events on The Weather Channel. If GE and NBC are going to do things like that, they should do it on their own dime.

    • (and fuster) was kidding and actually pretty much liked your post and shares your desire to see weather reported on something calling itself the Weather Channel.
      (and fuster) does think that you’re gonna find the work of many skilled lawyeristic-types will be available to keep you from stretching that single observation into a doubling up of GE bailout and legal impropriety in TWC’s bringing Obama’s good signing to light.

  27. Ah! I was not aware of the machinations of GE and the TWC benefits. That certainly puts a completely different light on things. Government and the media is a poisonous combination to democratic freedoms.

  28. Thank you for your post, and I agree with you: TWC has no charter and therefore no reason to cover political events in such a manner.

    Unlike the early days of this nation when the media was the “fourth branch of the government” and served as the watchdog for the people, there is no separation of politics and media anymore. Five major media corporations now decide what the news is, who’s going to get it, and how much they’re going to get. Furthermore, they produce the textbooks our children are taught from in the public school system. AND they have an unprecedented reach into our personal lives with all of the media entertainment conditioning us from the earliest of ages.

    G.W. illustrated how wonderfully this pairing of government and media works, and still today many ignorant Americans think we attacked Iraq because of 9/11. Many more believe Iraq had WMD’s, too. And there are those on the other side of the spectrum, also conditioned by major media, to despise G.W. and to go the opposite way … voila, election of Barack Obama.

    As another commented, this is fascism, the merging of the political state with corporations for the fulfillment of corporate interests. These five media corporations (or rather, their executives) are part of the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberger’s and the Council on Foreign Relations – all front organizations for a New World Order.

    If anyone believes national, federally mandated health insurance is not one more step in this direction towards world government, then they are sorely mistaken. Perhaps they have fallen prey to the very corporations that have repeatedly conditioned the minds of Americans.

    Freedom stands in the way of world domination, and this is why we are conditioned to believe the Orwellian double-speak of our political talking heads. We must believe that war is peace, that control is freedom, and that more government intervention is security.

    The health care “reform” and the subsequent fallout is the old adage, “Divide and Conquer” at work. A united people cannot be overrun. Too bad we no longer have a united America.

    We could use unity in this country. I would suggest that unity hinge around the Constitution and the protection of individual sovereignty, but most believe this to be a losing battle. After all, the Constitution is outdated, it worked for a time, but now it’s not followed. So we need a new way, right?

    Reductio ad absurdum.

    • yes, another abused amphibian forced to serve as a frontispiece for the writings of the ……..mightily………disgruntled

  29. I feel so….hoisted

  30. What the President does is news, even if you don’t like him.

    I can understand the opposition to the health care bill on the basis of its cost. I’m worried about how it may worsen our fiscal state, that is already in doubt.

    I don’t understand opposition to just the concept of access to health care for more folks though, and I think many conservatives seem to be in that camp.

    In other word I feel like we just bought a fancy sports car. I’m worried abut paying for it, but I don’t know why anyone would oppose in principle.

  31. I won’t get deep into the partisan debate side of this.

    I will say that I agree that TWC made a poor choice here. But they seem to be doing less and less weather reporting and more “special programming.”

    Movies, documentaries, historical weather retrospectives. It reminds me of when MTV decided that the majority of their programming should be something besides music videos. Now we have an endless supply of reality shows thanks to their programming geniuses.

    So I look at this as more of a ratings grab on TWC’s part, not some left-wing conspiracy. They don’t want anyone turning to other channels to check out the big news event.

    It’s all about keeping eyeballs on their channel, especially during commercials! So, if anything, it’s a shameless capitalist conspiracy. Trying to watch their channel and buy the products of their advertisers. It’s so thoroughly…American, in a sick consumerist kind of way.

  32. Of course it’s weather-related. It’s a sea change.

    One we might all drown in in a decade or so.

  33. Right on Opticon. The best outcome will be taking back congress in November to slow down the juggernaut in preparation for taking back the White House in 2012.

    Importantly, we have to be prepared for a “Reichstag Fire” type October Surprise if those outcomes look like probabilities. We face the party that cynicly changed the appointment rules in MA and openly stated that “There Are No Rules Here … We Make Them Up As We Go Along” Nothing is beyond the sort of folks in Washington today.

    • Sorry, Sully, the opticon is an October Surprise denier!!!!!

  34. I agree with R.H. Wright. All for-profit channels must do all they can to get numbers. If TWC had footage, they would show car chases. Obama’s news feed they could get free from NBC.

    I also disagree with certain of the main author’s premises, like that 9-11 was more important.

    9-11 was just a well-planned criminal act, not “the day everything changed”. In fact, little has changed. We are as greedy, selfish and full of hubris as we were before it, but the health care bill represents at least a teeny-weeny watered-down first step toward America getting a soul back.

    We are trying to take care of our own, because everyone deserves primary and preventative care. It shouldn’t be just for those who make enough money, and the underemployed shouldn’t have to go to the ER to get an asthma inhaler because they don’t have insurance.

    All the screaming over how much it costs doesn’t matter either. We’ll get more return for what it costs than we have in Iraq, Afghanistan, Viet Nam and in the bailouts. It’s better to even go nationally bankrupt for something we all deserve than to do it entirely in vain, as we have in these wars of empire.

    • IM we didn’t have the cash on hand to pay for the War of Northern Aggression either.
      But still we ruthlessly taxed and spent our merry way down south in order to steal away the property of gentlefolk.

  35. Too many “shoulds” and “shouldn’ts” in Mikey’s post. And it is never sound to go bankrupt, espeically on the backs of others, for something one feels he “deserves” when there are other ways to try to achieve it. Exchanging bankruptcy for a tangible good with a shelf life is foolish. And taking from someone who has to give away to someone who doesn’t is childish and short-sighted. There is nothing wrong with the altruistic wish to see others cared for, but the wise person considers cost and actual results before jumping into something just because it sounds nice and feels good. Socialism has not improved the lot of any society in which it has been tried. As Opticon’s post points out, we are seeing the effects all around of the increased intrusion of federal government into our lives already. Doing more of the same ought to be a silly answer to any reasonable person, regardless of political persuasion or which “side of the aisle” he is on.

    • @Phubbie

      1.) If 2 “shouldn’ts” and 1 “should” is too much I guess there’s not much point in evaluation of the subject in the first place. In order to offer an opinion, it’s kind of necessary to take a stand (i.e. shoulds and shouldn’ts).

      2.) If Socialism has not improved the lot of any who have tried it, why do so many nations with socialized medicine have greater life expectancy than we have here? Your blanket assertion is unsupported by fact.

      3.) I offered the statement about bankruptcy ironically. This should have been obvious by its comparison with the cost of “wars off the books”, which have also NOT caused us to go bankrupt.

  36. For all those calling Obama and Democrats fascists, socialist Nazis, communists, etc,:
    Let me enlighten you. As I said before, fascism is usually considered to be far right, and communism is far left. This does not mean that all Republicans are fascists any more than it means that all Democrats are communists. But calling Democrats fascists is just silly. Communists, while still incorrect, is closer.
    When fascist dictators took control, such as Hitler and Mussolini, they got rid of the communists and socialists first, who were their biggest political enemies. Extreme left vs. extreme right. So Bush is closer to a fascist than Obama, following political charts.
    If you’re going to resort to personal attacks, at least make them vaguely accurate. Otherwise you just look like idiots.

  37. Concerning Hitler, fascism, etc.: The standpoint that these belong on the right-wing is, at best, an over-simplification, and require a partially to drastically different interpretation of right-left than if we are to say that e.g. McCain is right/Obama left (or, for a more appropriate example: Tory is right/Labour is left).

    Firstly, Hitler was a nazist, not a fascist. The two are ideologically related, but far from identical. Notably, Hitler’s internal policy and propaganda was to a large part socialism—and his party was the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”.

    Secondly, claims that either nazis or fascists belong on the right is to a very large part founded on an equality “is a racist/dislikes foreigners” = “is a right-winger”—an equality that focuses on but one aspect and an aspect, at that, which is often plain wrong. There is no reason why e.g. a Republican should be racist and a Democrat not.

    If we look at other aspects, like a controlling state, this too is something that I would see more among the left(ish) parties of today and the 20th century than among the right(ish)—notwithstanding that many conservatives also want a strong government. Going back to the 19th century, this was different, but that merely further shows that this opinion is hard to tie down on the political spectrum.

    (Such problems are the reason that I thoroughly dislike the right-left scale.)

    • I didn’t come to the conclusion that fascism= right because of racism. Fascism is heavy on nationalism/patriotism, and there are boundaries between the rich and poor. In communism they attempt to remove boundaries and have everyone in the same boat. (This never works.)
      Hitler’s party of ‘Socialist’ Workers was a misnomer – he killed the socialists even before the Jews, I believe.
      Basically, I’m just operating off the classic left right scale, so whatever. I’m just saying that some people need to figure out what their insults are going to be.

  38. I see that Peaches is dusting those of a differing opinion with her cyanides.cityguyonline hasn’t lived as long as I’ve had the same job that I ,now , can’t work.. But that aside, I thought that you ALL could go to where the “WIND” isn’t coming from the dung heap. Check into vincentyettes.wordpress.com. It IS good when the waves move the sand around, isn’t it ?It’s something about CRYSTAL BALLS.

  39. i dont really understand how ur healthcare system works in america, here in england we have the nhs which means free healthcare, but also means you have to wait months and months for operations, etc, including people with cancer

  40. demagogues and their fans need to look at snapshots of scriptures, as well as those who don’t get into the whole ‘demagogue’ thing.

  41. Clearly late, but isn’ part of the issue that cable channels are less distinct now. AMC used to feature old movies. Now they seem little different than A & E.


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